Ability to tag users involved in a submission
Add the ability for the uploader of a submission (eg a drawing) to tag users in or involved with it. For example, "Drawn By", "Commissioned By", "Lineart by", "Colors by", "Features character", etc.
I've merged in discussion from another thread about "Collab Submissions", where the permissions required were getting pretty complicated to allow joint control. This way, it's just a tag that's applied to a submission.
Additional features needed would include the ability to stop people from being able to tag you on submissions, and an administrative tool to allow for abusive tagging to be flagged and reported to the moderation team. Also the ability for moderators to add/remove people tagged on an image -and rules against harassment/abuse of tagging people (see Facebook for more details :P).
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The permissions for this get pretty complicated, pretty quickly - especially when you start dealing with fine-grained controls like you explain in your problems & thoughts section.
One solution might be to simply have both participants upload their image to their respective accounts, and link to one another's submission - kind of how things are done now.
This is sort of related to the "Commissioner / artist cross posting" idea suggested in another topic, actually - where both parties have a shared piece of media they want to upload and see the comments on.
I actually just submitted an idea earlier today that expands on this same premise and I offer several possible solutions.
I couldn't seem to find right keywords in search for this issue, luckily before posting I kept scrolling through other issues. The cross posting is something I had on my mind for a while, and with FA, got annoying that I found duplicates of a bunch of files that I forgot I had downloaded simply because the file name was different between the artist and commissioner.
I imagine this would be solved by using like computer programming 'shared pointers'. Have a counter on the submission for how many places it's linked (artist, commissioner, potentially the groups idea) so it doesn't fully get deleted off the filesystem or the submission id and comments don't get purged unless it fully reaches 0 on the counter.
This is mostly relational database thinking, but a nosql style concept would be even easier since you don't have to have a 'field' or 'column' you don't need, making those entries even lighter, but for the gallery database for users, have the submission fields all blank but there be another field that's hidden that's a reference submission number. So under my gallery if a normal submission has (id, owner, name, views, favs, description, tags, publish_status) you'd have those fields all null (except id, probably, as primary keys are required) and so it'd just be (id, owner, reference, publish_status), and then on the client side you would on the infinite scroll or gallery request simply silently replace the thumbnail and feed items with the real submission. This way if an artist on upload or commissioner on upload puts in the new artist and commissioner fields (with + button, so if it's a group picture everyone gets the attach) and then they get it as a pending notification to approve/add or reject it before it shows up in gallery automatically so there's no spam tagging or trolling. Then since it's technically still submission row in database, you can delete it from yours and it still stays on the artist or other participants, and you can hide it in drafts/unpublished since it's still a submission row for your gallery. If you delete it you can ask one of the other participants to readd your name in the participant field with the + again or maybe just a small option in dropdown like where 'report' would be that would be like 'request particiapant/featuring link'.
This way you can have a single copy of the file on the sites filesystem (saving probably 1/2 of all uploads, since almost everyone uploads commissioner and artist side) as well as converging conversations which would help make each submission feel more alive and interactive. Artist may not get 'this is well done' comments and be discouraged since they're posted on the commissioners version, and total up the favs and promotes nicer.
This would seem a little patchwork and potentially waste some row space if relational database with fixed field widths, the empty columns would take up bytes of space regardless, but it would only require adding Artists and Featuring fields in the submissions table and using the + feature of tags currently for the UI side, as well as adding a field in submissions table for a shortcut/reference to another submission identifier.
After implementing, can also possibly do a moderation feature to merge and resolve issues with existing duplicates (if requested by participants) so the small backlog could be left as is or slowly wittle down over time with the sites still (relatively) small submission quantity.
Topics with the same discussion already:
There is also a mistake in your post, the licensee is not always the commissioner, this is decided in the contract (or reads in artists tos when you commission them) - furry commissions are commonly owned by the artists and not the commissioner. But from furry perspective it'd be nice to mark who supported the piece to be created (commissioner) and those who's characters appear in the piece, eventhough generic characters cannot be copyrighted/owned - but it's nice to imagine so when we have a community who supports the thought.
I did mention collaborations, and I found your idea suggestion just a few minutes ago. The two are related, I agree, and I'll read up a little more in depth on yours in just a moment. But while I agree the two deal with collaborations, my idea tackles multiple problems at once. It creates a
olution for commission works, duplicate files, duplicate tags, licensing, collaborative attribution, permissions and copyright notices all in one sitting.
I know, old post is old, but actually, the artist has rights to the labor. Commissions are a shared ownership. and the character IP belongs to the commissioner(s).
Merged these two together; while not identical exactly, they're both dealing with very similar concepts!
I've actually been thinking about this, along with the collections feature and what Varka said before makes sense:
"One solution might be to simply have both participants upload their image to their respective accounts, and link to one another's submission"
If you mean by linking them in means that they'll get the same faves & promotes and stuff (a sort of merger, but if the other one deletes their submission all the comments/promotes stay on the remaining submission). So they're actually two different submission but content they recieve is directed on all versions, this way they could have different description or even title, only thing they should have in common is mention of the role each poster has with the submission:
Probably the thing people are more concerned of is that you should be able to indicate whenever you are the artist, commissioner or character owner in the piece you post. And of course, one submission could have multiple artists, commissioenrs and character owners. This it needs to clearly visible. And if you aren't the artist, a field for who the artists is should always need to be entered, whenver they're in FN or outside (enter either their FN name or link to their website - this could help notifying for a merger if a piece with same name on same artist exists). The reason artists needs to be mentioned is because they are usually the copyright holder and/or contract demands mention.
As for copyright holder, what Crassus talked about in their thread. It could default to the artist(s) since that's how it's commonly with furry commissions. There are minor cases where it's not the case, which could easily be separately told in the description since it's rare. Or copyright could be its own field in a submission, as "copyright holder(s) + licence". But that might feel too complex for most average people? If it was it's own field it'd need explanation since most people don't know about copyright and especially about licences (or maybe licence could have a list of: all rights reserved and the different creative commons licences to choose from).
The primary reason I'm against having two or more copies uploaded of the same exact file that it's wasteful and clunky. It takes up more bandwidth and hard drive space on the server, and it clutters up search results. I see it all the time on FA. A new piece of art is made, and sometimes I see two or three copies of it on my new submissions lists. It's stupid!
We don't have this problem on Boorus because the artpiece is the center focus. Attributions to artists and participants are merely tags. Look at what they've done on e621. They have a great and active community keeping tags up. Why would a social networking site run any differently?
Each of the linked @users get a chance to have that same file listed on their timeline and add their own unique description to it if they wish. OR they don't need to have it in their submissions at all. They could suppress it. Why? Who knows. Just give them the option.
Imagine what that would do for filtering options. It would be beautiful. You could uncheck "commissions" and just look for pieces made BY that user, not for them. Or vice versa. You could filter it to show ONLY that person's commissions.
You could have a list of pieces that they've appeared in. Maybe a 2nd party commissioned a piece from a 3rd party. Maybe they showed up in a comic or they were mentioned in a song or a video or was a character in a story.
So many possibilities.
That is useful and would work, but might need a complete ovehaul to how submissions work atm :s
Granted I rehashed over what a few of you discussed on this and other related/linked topics but I feel the same way about it's cleanliness and feature being more evolved than other sites. I think it could be worked in with current database structure and no need a rehaul or breaking of existing duplicate posts, leaving those as they are. Simply by adding another field or column that is a reference id, if it's blank show the post as usual, if it's not blank, on the client side silently show the original/main post automatically.
you wouldn't need to rewrite database info for images, since the file itself doesn't need to have flags with it.
Instead, store the flags with the user :
That way the gallery code can filter the ones that are pointers and something like a "comissions" filter on the right side near the collections can be added easily and cheaply:
These are just suggestions since I don't know the detail of FN's structure, could be much harder irl to implement.
Conversely, I'd also suggest that the commissioner could post the image,and tag artists with the "artist" title so that the artist could add that to their gallery. I know a couple of artists who are really lazy to post work they've completed and they would benefit from this.
but the question also goes to this: what if the artist does a complete wipe of their gallery? I've seen time and time again artists who didn't like their work and would delete a commission, only for the commissioner to never see the image again should they lose the file for some reason.
Not to mention, what about artists who wish to remain anonymous?
Already a thread that discusses this (under review) here: http://support.furrynetwork.com/topics/168-collab-submissions/ :D
for a feature like this you might be able to take some inspiration from facebook, which as much as I don't like it has done something that can provide an idea.
facebook, as we all know, has a tagging feature for individual images for the uploader to add redirections to other people's profiles, then the system puts those images on the target profiles' gallery.
I think something similar can be done here - simply add a special kind of tag with someone's profile name and then the system would allow that profile holder to approve or deny that they had a part in the making of the item or even any relation to it other than direct influence. (of course I'm talking about commissioners.)
http://support.furrynetwork.com/topics/168-collab-submissions/ this topic is here
Late to the party, but this reminds me of the credit's or "appearance" thing that Vimeo has, if you participated in a project the uploader can then tag people who helped in the project and they would be automatically credited.
This kind of credit system thing could also be useful for say, people who upload art of their characters but not created by them? As a way to link back to the original artist.
Allow to upload artwork, tag another artist (comission or grupal art) and if him/her agrees, the artwork will be shown as if uploaded by the artist, but the faves and comments will be shared.
This would really put the 'network' in Furry Network!
Absolutely yes! +99999
If the posts aren't linked (shared comments/faves) then I would suggest that everyone gets a private tab in their galleries/user page/whatever that is something along the lines of "Submissions you're involved in" that displays the posts that they are connected to and/or mentioned in. This helps artists to keep track of their art posted by commissioners, helps people involved in a piece to view the responses to it when it's posted on other peoples' galleries, etc.
I suggested something similar a few months back - https://support.furrynetwork.com/topics/253-creator-client-and-featuring-fields-in-submissions/
Rather than having images be nested hierarchically beneath the user that submitted them, have the participants (creator, client, characters featured) be part of the metadata of the submission.
Anything in ( ) is a button.
Artist: _________________ (self) (If you click Self, this does not show up on the submission.)
Commissioned For: ______ (self) (If self, this does not show up on the submission)
Add Character? (click this to add a character)
Character 1: ___________ (owner) (tag) (self) (x)
Character 2: ___________ (owner) (tag) (self) (x)
Character 3: ___________ (owner) (tag) (self) (x)
owner, lets you tag a user account to that character should the character not have a specific page.
self, tags your current active character or account or whatever.
x, deletes that one from the list, moving the others up.
As a possible bonus feature, allow users to select a location on the image to highlight (tag) when hovering over a character in the info. I created two examples of what happens if you were to hover over "Character 2" if the uploader chose to tag it. (square simple tag) (advanced draw tag) Alternatively, you can simply do it the facebook way where you click a point on the picture and it adds a square of a fixed size that shows the name.
If anyone's curious, the submission I used in the example is;
I still think two of the same submission should be possible to 'link together' so they're gathering the same faves/promotes, so we can avoid the thingie where commissioners have to loudly scream 'please favorite the original!' thing that you commonly see on FA.
As with my other suggestion, this could optionally allow people to share same submission in their galleries without each uploading it individually.
This thread was originally called 'collab submissions' but after discussion it ended up with ability to tag invoved people - basically the thing you're looking for :D
Indeed it is, to a degree. Tho as far as I can see it, it is not being built to allow sharing same submission entry for multiple users.
Quite so. Except again for the sharing of same submission as the other one, but it certainly covers both in single feature. Didn't want to get too ambitious with using same system for people so differently involved.
I think y!Gallery's "From Others" and "Collaborative works" features are a good example of how this can be implemented.
I don't know if you're still following this topic, but I was wondering if adding FA-style multi-select folders to promotes would allow users to better identify works which they publicly endorse and/or with which they are involved. Might be better than what I initially replied.