If FA is hacked yet again, nothing will happen, as usual. For a website to attract a large portion of FA's user base, FA needs to be shut down completely, which, as much as I dislike FA, I hope won't happen. FA sucks, but frankly, it sucks a bit less than before and it going down will be even worse.

By and large, FurryNetwork failed both as a general furry artwork website and elite portfolio showcase website, so there's no point in investing heavy resources into it.

FN's owners seem to be looking into implementing art freelancer tools, something which has seen many failed implementations too, though it must be noted that this time it'll be something similar to Upwork, with extra fees and arbitration, rather than just a simple tool for helping artists and commissioners to find each other, so no idea how successful it will be.

> I have to use < > just to make a link work

Even though it violates CommonMark, I'd support adding autolinking to MD too. It does cause issues (separating URLs from trailing punctuation is error-prone), but lots of people are used to it, so requiring additional syntax doesn't make any sense.

> [quote=Vas time=Today Topic=someurl]Just an example[/quote]

Useful for long discussions with flat comments, not so much with threaded comments. And I hope comments here will be threaded eventually. Related: https://support.furrynetwork.com/topics/455-/

I may not be a writer, but I edited and reformatted numerous stories for a couple of websites including mine (grammar, typography, formatting etc.), wrote several articles (both technical and nontechnical) and tons of documentation, generated documents programmatically, all this using BB, MD, HTML+CSS, wiki, HAML, XSLT, WYSIWYG and even a bit of TeX as markup languages. (Before anyone starts insulting my vocabulary and grammar, laughing about me being an editor — English isn't my native language. I guess it should be obvious, but just in case.)

So please, next time you want to say, "You don't understand anything because you've never done it", think twice.

I want information about what and why people actually need, maybe help them understand MD better and find appropriate tools and solutions, but Storm Engineer thinks I just want to prove that MD is the best thing in the world and his ticket is the worst thing, or something like that. Now you too. And nobody bothers to actually read my messages, where I clearly state that I do support adding HTML to MD, and I do support adding a checkbox for disabling all formatting. BB is a more complex case, but anyway...

Try finding a single message where I say that BB must not be supported. Good luck. :)

> what would you do if you were told that all your documents had to be submitted in Notepad

Surely Scrivener can export to various formats, including plain old text files. I have no idea what "submitting in Notepad" is. I'd actually be more surprised if BB support was built-in, but HTML and TXT weren't. :)

Back when I used forums, there wasn't such a thing. Then forums kinda became irrelevant (which is sad), so I stopped caring.

1. Tried CKEditor + BBCode plugin (which covers IPB too, apparently). Copied text from above the textbox, pasted into box, switched to BB, it lost all line wraps.

2. Tried TinyMCE. Enabled WYS mode, copied text from footer, pasted into box, disabled WYS mode, it produced HTML. Toggling WYS back and forth messed up HTML more every time. No BB whatsoever.

3. Tried WYSBB. Copied text from its docs... long story short, lost all formatting, nothing remained.

4. Tried HotEditor. Copied text from below... long story short, it produced BB with some unconverted HTML tags and even JS attributes.

Okay, I get the idea. Basically, they don't work. :) Just as I expected. Actually, worse than I expected. I thought finding bugs would require some effort. Oh well.

Since you seem to not understand why I write this, let me explain: considering there's no working WYSIWYG+BB editor, just adding them won't be enough. This is something which needs to be consdered by devs if they think WYSIWYG+BB sounds good.

What I download from FA is what the author uploaded, bit to bit. It isn't shitty coding. It's lack of coding. And lack of coding happens on any site, including this. Thus, it's something which needs to be considered and explicitly implemented.

> What is your goal with this?

To discuss various problems and to better understand needs of other users. I want this ticket's discussion to contain all relevant information, including pros and cons of the various solutions you proposed in the original post, that is what and why should and should not be implemented. If this ticket receives attention, I want whoever decides on the implementation to have a complete understanding of the situation.

> We ALREADY have our texts formatted with BB and/or HTML

"And/or" is a bad choice of conjuction because BB and HTML are very different cases. :) If you format in BB and the website gives me BB when downloading a story (see: FurAffinity), it's bad. If you format in HTML, you can apply crazy formatting, and if the website doesn't clean it up (see: SoFurry), it's bad.

Overall, it's not magic. It's complex. There're many things which can go wrong.

By the way, converters from HTML to MD do exist. Converters from BB to HTML exist too, naturally. So going from BB to MD or from HTML to MD should be simple and automatic, not something done manually. Haven't used any of those converters though, so can't say anything about their quality.

If you really have problems with formatting huge blocks of text with MD, you should check it out. If you find something useful and open-source, it may be incorporated into the website.

> Formatted text is pasted from rendered HTML, Word or other sources into a WYSIWYG editor - in this case only formatting in the editor's set of tools is preserved

Nope. When you paste formatted text into the browser's "contenteditable" element, the browser produces a mess of HTML tags which it feels like using. The same applies to formatting done in the browser itself. Then it's website's job to clean up, transform and normalize this mess into something meaningful and acceptable in terms of the website's formatting language of choice. It can go wrong and it does. Lots of websites "supporting" HTML and/or WYSIWYG mess up paragraphs and other tags.

It's not magic. It's complex.

> Besides, your crazy font argument is not an argument at all, just bullshit. Or, more precisely:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope and https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

Not "slippery scope", because I'm not saying BB or HTML must not be implemented. I'm saying that there're problems which should be accounted for when implementing the eventual solution.

Not "bandwagon", because it's irrelevent.

You seem to have misplaced your reply (it's not FA here, so I don't think the website is to blame). I don't see how my message and your reply are related. I clearly mention formatting emotes in comments and don't mention writers at all.

Well, just in case you didn't notice, I do understand that formatting applies to many areas, not just stories. It's just that stories, in my opinion, is where problems are apparent and aren't about personal preferences.

Quote: "if I want to quote my favorite poem". (No facts, just "if".)

Quote: "Don't you (...) assume what is common for me". (No facts, just "don't assume". Most likely the opposite of my assumtion is correct, otherwise you're unlikely to disagree, but... no facts.)

Quote: "if I don't need the extra tools I won't use them, I lost nothing". (No facts, "if" again.)

Lots of "ifs", no "I need to quote poems". I explain why reasons with "ifs" are wrong and provide your poems as an example. You complain about me adding "every day" (or whatever I "misrespresented" — you didn't bother to explain), then explain your overall position, which has nothing to do with it.

I won't give you clever links because you absolutely don't understand what I'm trying to say. The message discusses only one reason and its shortcomings.

P. S. And no, you still haven't provided any examples of formatting which absolutely require BB and MD doesn't support at all. Just checked all you messages. A couple of examples where MD complicates formatting, but nothing about capabilities.

I support disabling complete separation. It's already annoying that I lose search query when switching between Popular and Fresh. Switching between more tabs makes site navigation even more annoying.

You may be interested in these tickets:

https://support.furrynetwork.com/topics/707-/ - full descriptions below images in image mode

https://support.furrynetwork.com/topics/1006-/ - more space for titles and descriptions in image mode

Improving image mode may work for shorther stories.

> there are several sites and platforms that do not give any WYSIWYG capabilities with BB/HTML code

What platforms? I don't know any combining WYSIWYG+BB. :) Browsers only support editable HTML (besides editable plain text), so WYSIWYG+HTML is a natural combination. WYSIWYG+BB would require HTML-to-BB conversion, which doesn't seem right to me. BB is often combined with live preview, but it isn't WYSIWYG by definition. I'd expect preview functionality from any editor which isn't WYSIWYG.

> BB Code on Furaffinity

It's actually really annoying when you download a story and get all this [B][/B] noise. Sure, I can read it on FA (I even added User CSS to make reading comfortable), but if I like something, I usually save it, and BB codes distract from reading a story.